“Pro-Hamas” is the only way to describe anyone who at this point in history tries to downplay or dismiss the fact that the terrorist organization uses human shields and particularly places their command centers under hospitals and other civilian infrastructure. So, that’s the term to describe MSNBC host Andrea Mitchell on Monday after she argued with National Security Council spokesman John Kirby on her eponymous show about the existence of terror tunnels under al Shifa hospital.
Immediately after introducing Kirby, Mitchell leapt to Hamas’s defense by suggesting Israel’s accusations that the terror group’s headquarters was under the largest hospital in Gaza were unfounded by the facts. She went on to suggest that if there were any terrorists there, there were only “a couple” and at most a small “cell”:
Even if Israel’s claim that Hamas command and control is under al Shifa as well as other hospitals, other Hamas units, even if that were to prove true – And my understanding is that the U.S. has not independently confirmed that intel. Does that justify striking a hospital? Questions have been raised by General Brown – CQ Brown, and others, that even getting a couple of terrorists or a terrorist cell doesn’t justify targeting a hospital.
The actions of the Israeli Defense Forces proved how much they believed their intelligence reports. They were apparently willing to put the lives of their soldiers at risk to infiltrate the facility and wipe out Hamas’s leadership in their lair, preserving as much of the hospital as they could.
Kirby wasn’t going to put up with Mitchell’s misinformation and shot her down by noting that it has long been understood “Hamas headquarters themselves in things like hospitals and schools and they have tunnels underneath residential complexes. They put the innocent people of Gaza at risk, in harm’s way just by how they headquarter themselves.”
A few minutes later, Mitchell tried to double down on the lie that Hamas didn’t use human shields, citing unspecified “reporting” “that there is some concern and some pressure from the administration for Israel to produce more evidence about what they say is going on under the hospitals.”
“It’s open-source reporting. I mean, it’s out, it’s public in the public domain that this is a tactic by Hamas. They do headquarter themselves in places of civilian infrastructure. Whether that’s schools or government buildings or hospitals. Certainly tunneling under homes,” Kirby pushed back again.
Kirby even explained to Mitchell that what Hamas was, indeed, doing was violating the laws of war. “I mean, we talk about the law of war, the law of armed conflict and I’ve heard people talk about war crimes. It is against the law of armed conflict to do exactly what Hamas is doing: tunneling and creating human shields out of the innocent people of Gaza,” he said. “No,” Mitchell shot back combatively.
She admitted Hamas had “done that before” but argued that now “There’s a lot of assumptions being made here.” And she put words in Kirby’s mouth about how he doesn’t “have independent corroboration about these specific instances” Israel claims happened, “But I understand that you’re not going to talk that intel.”
The transcript is below. Click “expand” to read:
MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell Reports
November 13, 2023
12:05:34 p.m. Eastern(…)
ANDREA MITCHELL: John Kirby, thanks for being with us. It’s a tough day. Let me start with the hospitals. Even if Israel’s claim that Hamas command and control is under al Shifa as well as other hospitals, other Hamas units, even if that were to prove true – And my understanding is that the U.S. has not independently confirmed that intel. Does that justify striking a hospital? Questions have been raised by General Brown – CQ Brown, and others, that even getting a couple of terrorists or a terrorist cell doesn’t justify targeting a hospital.
JOHN KIRBY (NSC, coordinator for strategic communications): This is the extra burden that we’ve been talking about for the Israeli Defense Forces as they try to go after Hamas leaders.
You’re right. I’m not going to speak about intelligence matters but we know, it’s open-source reporting, Hamas headquarters themselves in things like hospitals and schools and they have tunnels underneath residential complexes. They put the innocent people of Gaza at risk, in harm’s way just by how they headquarter themselves. And it does create an added burden now for the Israeli Defense Forces.
They have a legitimate right and a need, in fact, a responsibility, to go after these leadership of Hamas, but they also have to be mindful of civilian casualties, as particularly when it come to a hospital where you have patients who, they can’t evacuate on their own, they’ve got significant health issues. And your reporter rightly talking about those young, premature babies. They are victims of this as well and they can’t help themselves out of this problem. So, the Israeli defense forces have that extra burden, Andrea, of how to deal with this.
(…)
12:09:02 p.m. Eastern
MITCHELL: I know you don’t want to talk about intelligence, but I do have reporting also that there is some concern and some pressure from the administration for Israel to produce more evidence about what they say is going on under the hospitals.
KIRBY: Yeah, I’m not going to talk about our diplomatic conversations with our Israeli counterparts and I’m certainly not going to get into matters of intelligence.
I would just say what I said before: It’s open-source reporting. I mean, it’s out, it’s public in the public domain that this is a tactic by Hamas. They do headquarter themselves in places of civilian infrastructure. Whether that’s schools or government buildings or hospitals. Certainly tunneling under homes. They deliberately try to place the people of Gaza, innocent Palestinians, between them and the Israeli Defense Forces because they know that the burden is on the Israel in Defense Forces to try to preserve and protect civilian life. They know that and they’re deliberately putting these people in harm’s way.
I mean, we talk about the law of war, the law of armed conflict and I’ve heard people talk about war crimes. It is against the law of armed conflict to do exactly what Hamas is doing: tunneling and creating human shields out of the innocent people of Gaza.
MITCHELL: No, just to be clear, I understand that they’ve done that before. There’s a lot of assumptions being made here, but I know at least that you don’t have independent corroboration about these specific instances. But I understand that you’re not going to talk that intel.
KIRBY: Again, I’m going to be careful about what I say around intelligence here but again, it’s common knowledge that this is a tactic for Hamas. They have done this for many, many years.
(…)